Wake up people - Our country is in trouble

Excellent post!

This demonstrates the point I have tried to make on other threads. Runaway capitalism, without oversight and regulation will wind up with the same result as communism. A distribution of wealth that has 1% with everything and 99% with nothing.

It's already got a good start. 1% now own 38% of the wealth. It's those same 1% who we are about to bail out for their poor judgement and greed.

I will be calling Mike Pence.

And by the way, if McCain had it his way, your social security would have been invested in this market and on it's way to vaporizing.

At the very least, we cannot let the actions of the Treasury Secretary be above review. Do people understand what this means? I see people here worried about what's going on with EPD, but that is inconsequential to what is happening to our country. If we don't speak up, this country is going to places that we never could have ever imagined. Our children and grandchildren will pay the greatest price. I'm sure our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. What a mess. Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Worthy of your time and attention regardless of your Party Affiliation

545 PEOPLE: By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices, 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because the Congress created that problem. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing.

I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes.

Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red. If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ, it's because they want them in IRAQ. If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems. Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone, have the power. They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees. We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Exactly!! It doesn't matter who wins this election. Nothing is going to change for the American people. These 545 people do not care about us. Both sides will promise us anything to get elected but once elected they will not follow through with their promises. But I'm sure they will have very good reasons on why they won't be able to follow through with them. Yeah right.

Well, it matters not which party wins the election over the short to intermediate term. They will inherit a colossal financial fiasco and will probably be able to do precious little to stem the bleeding. The current administration is just trying to hold it together a little longer until they can pass the torch. Just remember that this mess started with this administration, although as things get worse the next administration will most likely be blamed. It is the same with the Federal Reserve Chairman. Alan Greenspan created this disaster by keeping interest rates too low for too long and encouraged people who didn't understand exotic mortgages to take out variable rate mortgages when they didn't have the means to pay when these rates adjusted higher - as they always do. Chairman Bernanke will be the one who is blamed though as he tries to guide us through these trying times. All I'm saying is that most Americans do not see what is coming and won't take the time to be proactive in trying to prevent the usurpation of their basic freedoms. It only takes a phone call, so please take a moment of your time and make it. Will it make a difference? That's a question that can't be answered today, but at least the effort was made.

Every person of voting age is just as responsible. We Americans usually keep electing the same people over and over. We hate to think that OUR congressman or woman could have anything to do with the problem. Add to this that many people have become single issue voters and will cut off their noses to spite their faces if it means getting their way on one issue they're feeling good. Single issue voters are dangerous because there are MANY issues that are crucial. Politicians are not stupid. They give us lip service on our important single little issues and we allow them to rob the treasury in exchange.

I used to think that ALL 18+ Americans should vote. Now I think that only those who are capable of reasoning beyond their single issue should be allowed. Politicians love our polarized society. They love that we're too lazy or dumb to follow the issues. They enjoy the fact that we don't know how Government works. They're thrilled to know that we're a bunch of lazt sheep that get most of our political leanings from spam E-mails rather than C-SPAN.

Nope, we Americans are to blame for not holding THEM to account for their actions and our best interests.

The thread starter is correct. WAKE UP! Give a damn about this Country for long enough to learn about what you are saying. Understand that your vote matters if you bother to vote. There are only two parties that have the power to win major elections. We need to support third parties at the local levels to grow them if we ever want them to be able to compete nationally.

Stop taking everything you hear or read for granted or as the truth. Half the crap we get in our inbox is a lie. Before you forward to all your friends, care enough to go to Snopes.com and verify what you are doing because the propogating of lies makes you as guilty as anybody.

For those of you who DO endeavor to seek the truth then say the truth and if we disagree on the issues then at least we can have mutual respect for another's educated opinion or ideology.

I have always thought and have posted on here some time ago that an uninformed vote is worse than not voting. Personally I have never thought one should vote just because they can. I do wish everyone would vote but only if they understand the issues. I think you are right on, as far as the politicians knowing, give the constituents a little something they want, just to get elected. Then have at it with their own personal agenda. I consider myself a liberal independent and vote according to my beliefs and not a party's agenda. Just not very good at writing down how I feel and backing up how I come to my conclusions.

Politicians love the dummy voters. Its how they keep getting elected. I find it humorous that any of you would think either one of these guys are gonna do anything good for this country. I have seen a lot of elections and promises over the years and none of them ever fulfilled. I myself am not going to waste my time or gas voting for either one of these jokers. History pretty much shows that it won't matter anyway. Oh, as far as Snopes goes, They are a husband and wife team that are not always right!

I really think the only way a third (or more) party stands a chance is to be developed at the grass roots level. Any person who wants to go into politics has to decide which party's ticket to run on. They do this by figuring out which party's beliefs most closely align with their own AND I'm sure they consider that choosing a 3rd party will diminish their odds of winning. I think this is why candidates always move toward the center on many issues in order to get mass appeal.

After a candidate chooses a party they must then adopt all the other issues of that party in order to fit. We don't fall out of the womb in perfect alignment with one of the two big parties. Clinton was wildly popular among the masses because he was so moderate. I really think Obama is far more moderate than the Republicans would like you to think. Fear tacticts are the name of the game.

One thing I can say about Obama is that he believes we should pay as we go rather than add trillions in debt like Bush did. I support this because my child does not deserve to inherit the blunders of our poor leadership. He believes that global warming is serious and wants us off Middle Eastern oil in 10 years as well. A tall order that I support for my child's sake.

Al posted a piece from APFN above that points out just how bad the Bush Admin has been. Because some people relate to his policy choices they find themselves defending their evilness at the same time. The fact has been exposed by Scott McClelland that Bush, Cheney and Rove exposed Valerie Plame. They are so evil that they will expose a CIA operative for revenge.

Back to the topic of the thread. I believe that the only way we should bail out these banks is to put them on a repayment plan with interest and also give similar bail-out options to the tax payers who are about to save their asses.

The U.S. federal government recently said it will not pay ousted chief executives of mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac up to US$24 million in exit packages.

Former Fannie Mae CEO Daniel Mudd $12.2 million in compensation last year, while former Freddie Mac CEO Richard Syron was paid $19.8 million.

I say we take every penny of those people. Their bad judgement and our negligence is allowing these companies to be so big and powerful now puts the economy at risk. These aren't your neighbor banks of days past. They all play the game of swallowing up every bank they can and that exposes all of us to their risks and bad judgements.

Add to this bailout package that nobody is allowed review or oversight of it and this looks to me like the bank robbers were caught by the cops and then released and given a pardon by the bank AND the cops.

I'll be contacting Lugar, Bayh and Pence this morning.

I'll go so far as to say that McCain will change nothing because he has a Democratic House and Senate and little of what he wants will ever reach his desk for signature into law. Obama has some chance of delivering because he has the benefit of the House and Senate on his side. Bush had that for 6 years and all they did was drag us into war and create another $4 Trillion in debt and deregulate the same industries that are going bankrupt today. That's the truth. They deregulated and the fat cats succeeded in doing themselves in after poor economic management.

Then we have inflation which is the same as a tax increase if you look at how we got it. Greenspan AND Bernanke kept the rates too low for too long. (Both of these guys are Republicans by the way) The wealthiest got a tax break. We got inflation which, for most Americans, is like a tax increase.

Snopes is one of several sites that at least endeavor to put an end to the spam in our inbox's. They are not perfect but usually they are right from all that I have read and heard about it. At least it's an effort.

I also do believe in health care for those who can't afford it. My family is covered well but there are many who are not and that's just wrong. Especially in a day that more employers are no longer able to afford it.

Let me add this tidbit about Ron Paul. While I agree with him on some things his position on global warming is very weak. He admits that we have a problem but proposes, like everything else, that the Government stay out of it. Does he not realize that some problems are bigger than the people? There must be action by the Government to cut back on CO2 emissions because industry alone will not do it. We know this. This is why Nixon created the EPA to begin with. You cannot assume that because we know that our actions are causing a problem that we'll also change our actions. It rarely works that way. This is where Ron and I depart. If you don't regulate the polluters they will keep polluting with reckless abandon because less regulation equals more profit. Maybe this is why we have laws that make it illegal to dump motor oil in our yards. It's OUR yard so who cares? Well, that oil winds up in the well of our neighbors so we wind up having a far bigger impact than we thought. We cannot expect that just because we understand the ramifications of our actions that we'll change course. That rarely happens with laws to force it.

the government spends too much money and controls to many markets! As far as Ron Paul gos, It seems you too can be swayed by one issue when voting :) I don't agree with everything he says either but the games that were played against him from the republicans and democrats showed me just how rigged the elections really are. Ron isn't weak on global warming but he had a legitimate question. We can do it here but what about China, Russia, Asia and the others. Are we gonna force them to do it too? If so, How??? We regulate the polluters now but the fines are so low that companies pollute then pay the fines if they get caught, because its cheaper to do business that way or just move to some other country where its not illegal. Obama or McCain either one will just put us in more debt. Just watch and see :) As far as the Banks bailout goes. They just extended the problems for the next president.

Al Jordan

doing ANYTHING is better than doing nothing. When it comes to global warming I think we need to get our own house in order first and then we need to hold other Countries accountable to the same standard or threaten them with limited access to this market. Maybe nobody will do that but that is how I feel.

One day maybe people will get tired of the US always getting walked on by bad trade deals and bad eco deals. The right is quick to get us into trade deals that lose jobs. I would have thought that after Clinton signed NAFTA that we'd have learned a lesson. Nope. GATT CAFTA, etc. are even worse. When it comes to global warming issues the right is quick to point out that we're getting a bad deal so they would rather do nothing. Double standards everywhere.

Isn't politics fun! LOL

Obama was on 60 minutes last night. Again, he pointed out that we need to pay as we go. He says that at the beginning of his administration that the budget will not be balanced for a while but that ultimately it must be balanced and the debt reduced. You are right. Inflation is caused by too much spending, borrowing, printing money. We rely on China to finance our debts now. How bad does it have to be that we have to borrow from the Commies to finance a war and a tax break for the rich? Neither of which have served to bolster the economy. Sure made the rich folks and the Military Industrial Complex quite happy though.

This information can be found on money.cnn.com.

It appears that as Congress scrambles to approve the rescue bill Senate Democrats circulated a counter proposal on Monday that would require the government to receive an ownership stake in the companies it helps. According to CNN Bush administration is pushing for a "clean" bill to be passed quickly and not be loaded up with provisions that would deter companies from participating.

Senator Richard Shelby said it best.
"In my judgment," Shelby said, "it would be foolish to waste massive sums of taxpayer funds testing an idea that has been hastily crafted, and may actually cause the government to revert to an inadequate strategy of ad hoc bailouts."

So the government is going to use our money, purchase the securities at a discounted price and sell them for a profit.

WE DO NOT NEED GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER BAND-AID(OUR MONEY) ON BIGGER PROBLEMS

Wow, we have gotten ourselves into a jam, have the government intervene with a $700 Billion bailout and watch the value of the Dollar drop, oil and gold rise or not have the government step in and risk a tightening of the money supply that would be so tight, no one will get a loan for anything. 99/100 times I would be against the government intervening but I really think that if they don't, we are going to see a depression just like 1929. I'm not trying to scare anyone but I truly believe that if this situation has put the county in grave condition. People, be smart, protect your money. This is going to get bad, really bad in a few months. Just Thursday, had the government not added Billions to the money supply, we would have had a tightening so tight that there would have been runs on the banks and there would have been "Major Corporations" going bankrupt. Banks need the money to loan to companies and individuals but if this bill doesn't pass, you will see banks not wanting to loan to anyone, they just want to have enough to cover their deposits.
Be careful of your money in the market! Again, not wanting to scare you but if this bill doesn't pass, we are going to see a major drop, as in 25-40% of the value of your 401K. There will be companies going out of business and if you own stock in those companies, you lose. Now is a good time to pull your money, stick it into gold and wait it out.

These banks wanted the Government OUT of their business. NOW they want the Government back in their business???

And to top it off they don't want oversight of a $700 Billion blank check.

Wanna know what John McCain told 60 minutes?

John McCain on 60 Minutes, 9/21/08.

Scott Pelley: In 1999, you were one of the senators who helped pass deregulation of Wall Street. Do you regret that now?

John McCain: No, I think the deregulation was probably helpful to the growth of our economy.

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUJ_Qn0AHTU

If Jesus Christ had won the lottery 2000 years ago he would have to continue to hit the lottery every day up to today in order to have just over $700 Billion.

You read that right. 2000 years X 365 days/yr X $1,000,000 = $730 Billion.

if we pass another TAX we can afford it!

Pass another tax to bail out the fat cats? I don't think so. Stirring the s@#t is fun though, isn't it?

First of all before the bailout bill proposal I would bet few of us ever heard of Hank Paulson. Now he is all the sudden the economic czar. I don't think the government will have any better handle on purchasing bad assets. How will they know what they are worth. These are already bad loans and private sector experts don't even know what they're worth. They will purchase these bad debts in hopes that one day they will be worth more. Now the government is going to determine what is a good buy? I don't think so.
This is going to provide welfare for the rich.

Why don't they just loan Wall Street money and get equity in return? After all this where the problem really is. The bad assets are mostly bad mortgages. When they go bad, it means Wall Street loses some money, yes, but it also means a family loses their home. And though ensuring Wall Street's survival is a definite priority, it's extremely hard to argue that elite investors who made bad bets in order to reap big profits deserve public help while ordinary homeowners who entered into bad mortgages on the strength of bad advice merit nothing.

This plan was developed in secret in a matter of days. Thankfully I think Congress is beginning to balk. There needs to be something done but this plan is not going to help any of us.

You're absolutely right whcih is why both high ranking Democrats & Republicans are going to make sure we the middle class do not get hammered with this, or, not much more than we will anyway. You are correct in saying this will be welfare for the rich.
They can start by limiting the CEO's salaries among other things. You know it's kind of funny. Back in July Bush said our economy was strong but in tonight's address he says that this has been coming for years.

What bothers me is that both major candidates and both major parties seem to be discussing how, not if, this package should be passed. Unless someone explains where they're going to cut 700 billion in spending, there will be no where but the middle class to get the money from. It's the SPENDING stupid. There's not enough "Rich" people to get 700 billion from. It also concerns me that this spending increase -- which must be taken from US one way or the other -- is being pushed through too quickly to allow anyone time to think through the real effects and consequences.

Also, the bill that was originally offered by Bush had nothing to do with the home owners. Although some provisions being discussed now might offer a little help for them, the bulk of the money is for bailing out the people that made the bad loans. If someone can't do the job right, aren't they supposed to lose that job?

Steelerfan,

There is already a silent run on the banks via the money market funds. The wealthy have been moving money out of money market funds at an alarming rate and that is why T-bills are yielding 0% interest. Smart money just wants to preserve their capital and are no longer concerned with making money just keeping what they have. I can guarantee that the joe6pack has no idea idea what's in their money market funds and their fixed account funds where they think they are safe. While these may be safer than many places to keep money, they still have exposure to all this toxic garbage that wall street has divied out all over the world. This 700b bailout is but a band-aid on the problem of over-the-counter deriatives. The true cost will be in the trillions. The best thing we all can do as individuals is get out of ALL debt and live within our means.

moma always said the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer

what else do we have to pay for?????

Life is like a party never no who is going to crash it!!!!
wildthang1971